{author PerpleBot}

{date Thu May 27 00:00:00 2004}

{title PlaNetwork for Thu May 27 00:00:00 2004}

[2004-05-27 10:43:39] [ join ] [[EugeneEricKim]]@~eekim@adsl-67-124-99-121.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net has joined #planetwork {nid WX}

[2004-05-27 13:45:36] [ join ] [[guilly]]@~Snak@209.77.201.119 has joined #planetwork {nid WY}

[2004-05-27 13:46:12] <[[guilly]]>: Hi Eugene, will you be on irc this afternoon if Christina and I have questions for you? {nid WZ}

[2004-05-27 13:50:56] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Hi Gail. {nid X0}

[2004-05-27 13:51:36] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I'm heading up to SF in about half an hour (Identity Commons meeting), but I'll try to stay on IRC there. {nid X1}

[2004-05-27 13:52:19] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Btw, nice use of the Wiki today!  I liked how you responded to SamBower's presence. {nid X2}

[2004-05-27 13:53:29] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: (Talking to no one in particular....)  While I'm at it, I might as well test transclusions. {nid X3}

[2004-05-27 13:53:39] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: [t WW] {nid X4}

[2004-05-27 13:53:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Now that's cool. {nid X5}

[2004-05-27 14:00:55] <[[guilly]]>: did you get my postcard? {nid X6}

[2004-05-27 14:01:58] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Yes, but I haven't played it yet -- having trouble with my speakers at the moment. {nid X7}

[2004-05-27 14:21:02] [ quit ] [[EugeneEricKim]]@~eekim@adsl-67-124-99-121.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net quit ("Client Exiting") {nid X8}

[2004-05-27 14:49:31] [ quit ] [[guilly]]@~Snak@209.77.201.119 quit ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep") {nid X9}

[2004-05-27 15:41:59] [ join ] [[guilly]]@~Snak@209.77.201.119 has joined #planetwork {nid XA}

[2004-05-27 16:15:02] [ join ] [[EugeneEricKim]]@~eekim@ns.broadcatch.com has joined #planetwork {nid XB}

[2004-05-27 17:14:00] [ join ] [[eekim]]@~eekim@ns.broadcatch.com has joined #planetwork {nid XC}

[2004-05-27 17:15:29] [ quit ] [[eekim]]@~eekim@ns.broadcatch.com quit (Client Quit) {nid XD}

[2004-05-27 17:32:25] [ quit ] [[EugeneEricKim]]@~eekim@ns.broadcatch.com quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) {nid XE}

[2004-05-27 17:34:10] [ quit ] [[guilly]]@~Snak@209.77.201.119 quit (Remote closed the connection) {nid XF}

[2004-05-27 20:15:26] [ join ] [[guilly]]@~Snak@209.77.201.22 has joined #planetwork {nid XG}

[2004-05-27 20:30:10] [ part ] [[guilly]]@~Snak@209.77.201.22 has left #planetwork : {nid XH}

[2004-05-27 21:51:46] [ join ] [[EugeneEricKim]]@~eekim@adsl-67-124-98-226.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net has joined #planetwork {nid XI}

[2004-05-27 21:52:14] <[[GabeW]]>: hey EugeneEricKim  {nid XJ}

[2004-05-27 21:52:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Hi Gabe. {nid XK}

[2004-05-27 21:52:50] <[[GabeW]]>: i don't think we've actually met before, but I certainly am watcing what you guys are doing  {nid XL}

[2004-05-27 21:53:13] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I've definitely seen your name about.  You wrote the Python implementation of the XRI parser? {nid XM}

[2004-05-27 21:53:29] <[[GabeW]]>: well {nid XN}

[2004-05-27 21:53:52] <[[GabeW]]>: yah, and I'm co-chair of the XRI TC and I editor of the XRI spec - I wrote the resolution stuff {nid XO}

[2004-05-27 21:54:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Ah!  So I should bug you if I have questions. :-) {nid XP}

[2004-05-27 21:54:34] [[GabeW]] hides {nid XQ}

[2004-05-27 21:54:35] <[[GabeW]]>: yah {nid XR}

[2004-05-27 21:54:51] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: *laugh* {nid XS}

[2004-05-27 21:55:17] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I'm enjoying the process of building on top of the work you folks have done. {nid XT}

[2004-05-27 21:55:18] <[[GabeW]]>: actually the first time I heard your name was in reference to purple {nid XU}

[2004-05-27 21:55:22] <[[GabeW]]>: well thats good {nid XV}

[2004-05-27 21:55:26] <[[GabeW]]>: I wanted to make it simple {nid XW}

[2004-05-27 21:55:41] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Great way of learning the ins and outs of the spec. {nid XX}

[2004-05-27 21:55:41] <[[GabeW]]>: we had a much more complicated resolution protocol before {nid XY}

[2004-05-27 21:55:45] <[[GabeW]]>: and I gacked on it {nid XZ}

[2004-05-27 21:56:04] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Where did you first hear about purple numbers? {nid Y0}

[2004-05-27 21:56:14] <[[GabeW]]>: oh someone mentioned it on #joiito probably {nid Y1}

[2004-05-27 21:56:46] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Cool.  I'm thinking that XRI may be a good solution for what we're trying to do with next-gen PurpleNumbers. {nid Y2}

[2004-05-27 21:57:12] <[[GabeW]]>: neet {nid Y3}

[2004-05-27 21:57:13] <[[GabeW]]>: wait {nid Y4}

[2004-05-27 21:57:17] <[[GabeW]]>: are you in San Mateo? {nid Y5}

[2004-05-27 21:57:29] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: My mailbox is there.  I actually live in Menlo Park. {nid Y6}

[2004-05-27 21:57:32] <[[GabeW]]>: aah {nid Y7}

[2004-05-27 21:57:38] [[GabeW]] lives in redwood shores and works in Foster City {nid Y8}

[2004-05-27 21:57:59] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Cool.  We should have lunch sometime and chat.  Are you planning on coming to PlaNetwork? {nid Y9}

[2004-05-27 21:58:11] <[[GabeW]]>: i'm leaning farther towards it {nid YA}

[2004-05-27 21:58:25] <[[GabeW]]>: I feel like there's a lot of people I want to meet going {nid YB}

[2004-05-27 21:58:26] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Excellent! {nid YC}

[2004-05-27 21:58:40] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Have you met most of the Identity Commons folks? {nid YD}

[2004-05-27 21:59:02] <[[GabeW]]>: no, actually I haven't {nid YE}

[2004-05-27 21:59:34] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Well, PlaNetwork will definitely be the place to be for that. {nid YF}

[2004-05-27 21:59:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: We've had a bunch of meetings recently, but we should do a more casual beer session after or during the conference. {nid YG}

[2004-05-27 22:00:04] <[[GabeW]]>: damn, giants going to extra innings {nid YH}

[2004-05-27 22:00:57] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Who pitched tonight? {nid YI}

[2004-05-27 22:01:35] <[[GabeW]]>: uh {nid YJ}

[2004-05-27 22:01:41] <[[GabeW]]>: only saw the game recently {nid YK}

[2004-05-27 22:01:56] <[[GabeW]]>: my son (who is about 20 months old) is going nuts watching baseball these days {nid YL}

[2004-05-27 22:02:22] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Excellent! {nid YM}

[2004-05-27 22:02:47] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Some of my earliest memories are of watching baseball with my dad. {nid YN}

[2004-05-27 22:03:13] <[[GabeW]]>: heh {nid YO}

[2004-05-27 22:03:24] <[[GabeW]]>: i left the kids with my wife tonight so I could go to bed {nid YP}

[2004-05-27 22:03:27] <[[GabeW]]>: but then I got on IRC {nid YQ}

[2004-05-27 22:03:28] <[[GabeW]]>: bad me {nid YR}

[2004-05-27 22:03:45] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: IRC is dangerous. {nid YS}

[2004-05-27 22:04:05] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I promised folks I'd hang out on the channel leading up to the conference. {nid YT}

[2004-05-27 22:04:10] <[[GabeW]]>: yah {nid YU}

[2004-05-27 22:04:16] <[[GabeW]]>: i've been doing irc for the last couple of years {nid YV}

[2004-05-27 22:04:18] <[[GabeW]]>: wel {nid YW}

[2004-05-27 22:04:24] <[[GabeW]]>: i stopped for a long time years and years ago {nid YX}

[2004-05-27 22:04:28] <[[GabeW]]>: but then I wandered back {nid YY}

[2004-05-27 22:04:36] <[[GabeW]]>: and its been quite useful, even for work related stuff {nid YZ}

[2004-05-27 22:04:57] <[[GabeW]]>: i find #rdfig to be useful - even for non RDF or semantic web questions {nid Z0}

[2004-05-27 22:05:05] <[[GabeW]]>: a bunch of the w3c people hang out there {nid Z1}

[2004-05-27 22:05:45] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I read their ChumpBot every once in a while. {nid Z2}

[2004-05-27 22:06:05] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Don't hang out much on IRC, though. {nid Z3}

[2004-05-27 22:06:29] <[[GabeW]]>: yah, I seem to know a lot of people *only* through IRC {nid Z4}

[2004-05-27 22:07:11] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: FreeNode is pretty cool. {nid Z5}

[2004-05-27 22:07:30] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: It didn't exist back when I first tried IRC about 10 years ago. {nid Z6}

[2004-05-27 22:07:33] <[[GabeW]]>: good signal to noise ratio {nid Z7}

[2004-05-27 22:07:40] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Otherwise, I might have hung out here more. {nid Z8}

[2004-05-27 22:07:42] <[[GabeW]]>: yah, 10 years ago, irc was overrun with stupid kids {nid Z9}

[2004-05-27 22:07:42] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Exactly. {nid ZA}

[2004-05-27 22:07:50] <[[GabeW]]>: thats why I stopped using it {nid ZB}

[2004-05-27 22:07:57] <[[GabeW]]>: freenode is not overrun with stupid kids {nid ZC}

[2004-05-27 22:10:36] <[[GabeW]]>: do you still do webservices.devchannel.org ? {nid ZD}

[2004-05-27 22:10:53] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Nope.  Stopped doing that about a year ago. {nid ZE}

[2004-05-27 22:13:19] <[[GabeW]]>: well, its cool ya'll are actually implementing XRI ..  {nid ZF}

[2004-05-27 22:13:48] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Are you using it right now at your company (Visa?)? {nid ZG}

[2004-05-27 22:14:13] <[[GabeW]]>: well, we move slooowly {nid ZH}

[2004-05-27 22:14:15] <[[GabeW]]>: yah, visa {nid ZI}

[2004-05-27 22:14:49] <[[GabeW]]>: visa intl specifically (as oppopsed to one of the regions) {nid ZJ}

[2004-05-27 22:15:20] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: What are you folks planning on using it for? {nid ZK}

[2004-05-27 22:15:26] <[[GabeW]]>: hahaha {nid ZL}

[2004-05-27 22:15:38] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Or am I not allowed to ask that question? :-) {nid ZM}

[2004-05-27 22:15:45] <[[GabeW]]>: i could tell you but I'd have to kill you and then nuke your irc archive {nid ZN}

[2004-05-27 22:16:06] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: We can't have that.  The IRC archive is supposed to last forever. {nid ZO}

[2004-05-27 22:16:19] <[[GabeW]]>: yah, thx esp to google {nid ZP}

[2004-05-27 22:17:11] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Okay, let me try another question.  How did you end up chairing the XRI committee?  Did you author the original spec? {nid ZQ}

[2004-05-27 22:17:23] <[[GabeW]]>: well {nid ZR}

[2004-05-27 22:17:31] <[[GabeW]]>: so we did some work with OneName and XNS {nid ZS}

[2004-05-27 22:18:02] <[[GabeW]]>: and we wished to see the XNS stuff get "lightened up" and moved into a "standards" body {nid ZT}

[2004-05-27 22:18:56] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Gotcha. {nid ZU}

[2004-05-27 22:19:45] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: If you don't mind hanging out here a bit longer, would you mind if I explained my XRI and PurpleNumbers idea? {nid ZV}

[2004-05-27 22:20:09] <[[GabeW]]>: a few minutes - I'm getting a little sleepy {nid ZW}

[2004-05-27 22:20:27] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Thanks; I'll be brief. {nid ZX}

[2004-05-27 22:20:32] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Have you seen PurpleWiki? {nid ZY}

[2004-05-27 22:21:09] <[[GabeW]]>: yah {nid ZZ}

[2004-05-27 22:21:20] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Do you know what TransClusions are? {nid 100}

[2004-05-27 22:21:25] <[[GabeW]]>: no {nid 101}

[2004-05-27 22:21:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Do you know TedNelson? {nid 102}

[2004-05-27 22:21:48] <[[GabeW]]>: name is familiar {nid 103}

[2004-05-27 22:21:52] <[[GabeW]]>: the {nid 104}

[2004-05-27 22:21:57] <[[GabeW]]>: oh oh {nid 105}

[2004-05-27 22:21:57] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Ted coined the term "hypertext" in the 1960s. {nid 106}

[2004-05-27 22:22:02] <[[GabeW]]>: yah {nid 107}

[2004-05-27 22:22:13] <[[GabeW]]>: whats the name of that project.. {nid 108}

[2004-05-27 22:22:13] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: He launched the Xanadu project in the 1980s.  Had funding from Autodesk. {nid 109}

[2004-05-27 22:22:16] <[[GabeW]]>: thats it {nid 10A}

[2004-05-27 22:22:33] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: He also coined the term TransClusion. {nid 10B}

[2004-05-27 22:22:46] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: It's basically a link, except the content of the link is displayed inline. {nid 10C}

[2004-05-27 22:23:18] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: So, if you transclude some text (as opposed to copy and paste it), you see the text, but you can also follow the link to see it in its original context. {nid 10D}

[2004-05-27 22:23:59] <[[GabeW]]>: ok, so marc canter's blog does that (and its annoying) - it copies the content from another site and presents it "inline", so to speak..  {nid 10E}

[2004-05-27 22:24:33] <[[GabeW]]>: so, you'd like #joiito..  {nid 10F}

[2004-05-27 22:25:26] <[[GabeW]]>: ok {nid 10G}

[2004-05-27 22:25:34] <[[GabeW]]>: anyway, you were saying about transclusion.. {nid 10H}

[2004-05-27 22:25:42] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: But TransClusions also retain the link. {nid 10I}

[2004-05-27 22:25:46] <[[GabeW]]>: ok {nid 10J}

[2004-05-27 22:25:49] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: So you can see the text in its original context. {nid 10K}

[2004-05-27 22:25:59] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: (Which is especially useful when you read Marc's blog. :-) {nid 10L}

[2004-05-27 22:26:58] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: PurpleNumbers are meant to be persistent addresses for granular content (paragraphs, headers, etc.) {nid 10M}

[2004-05-27 22:27:06] <[[GabeW]]>: ok {nid 10N}

[2004-05-27 22:27:20] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: For example: http://planetwork.blueoxen.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HomePage#nidN7 {nid 10O}

[2004-05-27 22:27:26] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: The N7 is the PurpleNumber. {nid 10P}

[2004-05-27 22:27:41] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: That address sticks with that paragraph, even if you move it somewhere else on the Wiki. {nid 10Q}

[2004-05-27 22:28:00] <[[GabeW]]>: k {nid 10R}

[2004-05-27 22:28:14] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Because we have granular addresses and because they're persistent and document-independent, we can do transclusions. {nid 10S}

[2004-05-27 22:28:17] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Here's an example: {nid 10T}

[2004-05-27 22:28:21] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: [t N7] {nid 10U}

[2004-05-27 22:28:36] <[[GabeW]]>: thats cool {nid 10V}

[2004-05-27 22:28:44] <[[GabeW]]>: so you can refer to paragraph chunks {nid 10W}

[2004-05-27 22:28:49] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Exactly. {nid 10X}

[2004-05-27 22:29:00] <[[GabeW]]>: and include them by reference anywhere in the system {nid 10Y}

[2004-05-27 22:29:06] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Exactly. {nid 10Z}

[2004-05-27 22:29:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: The constraint we have right now is that the addresses are unique per installation. {nid 110}

[2004-05-27 22:29:42] <[[GabeW]]>: heh {nid 111}

[2004-05-27 22:29:42] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I'd like to have a global address scheme. {nid 112}

[2004-05-27 22:29:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: So I could transclude paragraphs from your site into my site. {nid 113}

[2004-05-27 22:29:53] <[[GabeW]]>: i knew where you were going  {nid 114}

[2004-05-27 22:30:10] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Does this sound like a potential XRI application? {nid 115}

[2004-05-27 22:30:20] <[[GabeW]]>: so whats wrong with using HTTP URLs for transclusion?  {nid 116}

[2004-05-27 22:30:22] <[[GabeW]]>: well maybe {nid 117}

[2004-05-27 22:30:40] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Lots of things. {nid 118}

[2004-05-27 22:30:44] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: They're not persistent. {nid 119}

[2004-05-27 22:30:47] <[[GabeW]]>: oh I see --- you want to refer to the content even if it moves to another site {nid 11A}

[2004-05-27 22:30:50] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: They're document-dependent. {nid 11B}

[2004-05-27 22:30:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Exactly. {nid 11C}

[2004-05-27 22:30:56] <[[GabeW]]>: light bulb comes on  {nid 11D}

[2004-05-27 22:31:04] <[[GabeW]]>: in that case, yes, great use case for XRIs {nid 11E}

[2004-05-27 22:31:22] <[[GabeW]]>: I'll be the first one to say "use an HTTP URI" if it makes sense {nid 11F}

[2004-05-27 22:31:24] <[[GabeW]]>: but  {nid 11G}

[2004-05-27 22:31:34] <[[GabeW]]>: this seems like a great use case for XRI {nid 11H}

[2004-05-27 22:31:44] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: That's what I was hoping. {nid 11I}

[2004-05-27 22:32:10] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: With Fen's resolver, it's also somewhat practical now. {nid 11J}

[2004-05-27 22:32:16] <[[GabeW]]>: cool {nid 11K}

[2004-05-27 22:32:41] [[GabeW]] stands back and lets his baby grow roots ;-) {nid 11L}

[2004-05-27 22:32:51] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: :-) {nid 11M}

[2004-05-27 22:33:23] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Glad that I'm somewhat on the right track. {nid 11N}

[2004-05-27 22:33:31] <[[GabeW]]>: yah {nid 11O}

[2004-05-27 22:33:40] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Would love to chat more about this a little earlier in the day. :-) {nid 11P}

[2004-05-27 22:33:45] <[[GabeW]]>: hehe {nid 11Q}

[2004-05-27 22:33:49] <[[GabeW]]>: one way I think about XRIs {nid 11R}

[2004-05-27 22:34:01] <[[GabeW]]>: is as a layer of indirectoin above HTTP URIs {nid 11S}

[2004-05-27 22:34:28] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I like that about them.  Makes it practical to bootstrap them over an existing infrastructure. {nid 11T}

[2004-05-27 22:34:35] <[[GabeW]]>: since I tend to think that 90% of all the interesting stuff out there can be made acessible through HTTP {nid 11U}

[2004-05-27 22:34:43] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Like what we're doing with Identity Commons. {nid 11V}

[2004-05-27 22:34:44] <[[GabeW]]>: that was exactly the intent {nid 11W}

[2004-05-27 22:36:48] <[[GabeW]]>: we've been flying fairly low in terms of visibility {nid 11X}

[2004-05-27 22:37:03] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: By design? {nid 11Y}

[2004-05-27 22:37:05] <[[GabeW]]>: keeps the pressure off of us {nid 11Z}

[2004-05-27 22:37:06] <[[GabeW]]>: yah {nid 120}

[2004-05-27 22:37:21] <[[GabeW]]>: there seems to be a critical mass now {nid 121}

[2004-05-27 22:38:13] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Hopefully.  It would be great to start seeing articles on XRI in the press and on the Internet. {nid 122}

[2004-05-27 22:39:17] <[[GabeW]]>: btw, I'd recommend HyrdaIRC on windows over mirc, but thats just me ;-) {nid 123}

[2004-05-27 22:39:27] <[[GabeW]]>: (looking at the planetwork wiki) {nid 124}

[2004-05-27 22:39:32] <[[GabeW]]>: http://planetwork.blueoxen.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InternetRelayChat {nid 125}

[2004-05-27 22:39:55] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Why? {nid 126}

[2004-05-27 22:40:10] <[[GabeW]]>: i just like the UI better {nid 127}

[2004-05-27 22:40:24] <[[GabeW]]>: and mirc just sorta irritates me - not sure why {nid 128}

[2004-05-27 22:41:16] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: [t FJ] {nid 129}

[2004-05-27 22:41:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Good enough for me. {nid 12A}

[2004-05-27 22:41:34] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: If people complain, I'll just blame you. :-) {nid 12B}

[2004-05-27 22:42:21] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Someone recommend MIRC last year, so I put it up there.  I haven't heard many opinions one way or the other. {nid 12C}

[2004-05-27 22:42:31] <[[GabeW]]>: oh {nid 12D}

[2004-05-27 22:42:34] <[[GabeW]]>: [t FI] {nid 12E}

[2004-05-27 22:42:38] <[[GabeW]]>: need {nid 12F}

[2004-05-27 22:42:50] <[[GabeW]]>: so it goes and grabs the thing identified by the purple ID {nid 12G}

[2004-05-27 22:42:56] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Yup. {nid 12H}

[2004-05-27 22:43:16] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Works the opposite direction, too. {nid 12I}

[2004-05-27 22:43:27] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: These logs have PurpleNumbers, and the content can be transcluded into the Wiki. {nid 12J}

[2004-05-27 22:43:33] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Works with blogs, too. {nid 12K}

[2004-05-27 22:43:51] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: See http://www.eekim.com/blog/ or http://www.burningchrome.com:8000/~cdent/mt/ {nid 12L}

[2004-05-27 22:44:00] <[[GabeW]]>: aaah {nid 12M}

[2004-05-27 22:44:02] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: We have plugins for both blosxom and MovableType. {nid 12N}

[2004-05-27 22:44:10] <[[GabeW]]>: cool {nid 12O}

[2004-05-27 22:44:18] <[[GabeW]]>: so basically you are giving URIs to smaller text chunks {nid 12P}

[2004-05-27 22:44:27] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Exactly.  Persistent URIs. {nid 12Q}

[2004-05-27 22:44:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Simple, but amazingly useful. {nid 12R}

[2004-05-27 22:44:44] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Once you get used to them, they're hard to live without. {nid 12S}

[2004-05-27 22:45:39] <[[GabeW]]>: heh {nid 12T}

[2004-05-27 22:45:42] <[[GabeW]]>: you sound like drummond {nid 12U}

[2004-05-27 22:45:57] <[[GabeW]]>: do you know drummond reed? {nid 12V}

[2004-05-27 22:46:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: *laugh* {nid 12W}

[2004-05-27 22:46:53] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Scary. :-) {nid 12X}

[2004-05-27 22:47:31] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Yup.  Met him last July in Sebastapol. {nid 12Y}

[2004-05-27 22:47:44] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Check that... met him at last year's PlaNetwork. {nid 12Z}

[2004-05-27 22:47:48] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Very good guy. {nid 130}

[2004-05-27 22:48:06] <[[GabeW]]>: EugeneEricKim: oh you got invited to the secret oreilly conference? {nid 131}

[2004-05-27 22:48:28] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: It wasn't O'Reilly (although it was held at their former offices). {nid 132}

[2004-05-27 22:48:32] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: You weren't invited?! {nid 133}

[2004-05-27 22:48:55] <[[GabeW]]>: hmm {nid 134}

[2004-05-27 22:49:00] <[[GabeW]]>: are we talking about the same thing? {nid 135}

[2004-05-27 22:49:19] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Maybe not.  It was an IdentityCommons workshop that Owen Davis convened. {nid 136}

[2004-05-27 22:49:24] <[[GabeW]]>: no {nid 137}

[2004-05-27 22:49:28] <[[GabeW]]>: different thing {nid 138}

[2004-05-27 22:49:38] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Gotcha. {nid 139}

[2004-05-27 23:05:20] <[[GabeW]]>: night (for the completeness of the log) {nid 13A}

[2004-05-27 23:05:30] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: see you later. {nid 13B}

[2004-05-27 23:05:35] <[[GabeW]]>: zzzz {nid 13C}

[2004-05-27 23:07:54] [ join ] [[cdent]]@~cdent@cust-216-9-146-10.bton.kiva.net has joined #planetwork {nid 13D}

[2004-05-27 23:08:18] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Hey Chris! {nid 13E}

[2004-05-27 23:08:25] <[[cdent]]>: howdy {nid 13F}

[2004-05-27 23:08:35] <[[cdent]]>: was reading the log, saw the xri stuff, got interested {nid 13G}

[2004-05-27 23:08:57] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Yeah, I was just about to post to devel@purplewiki. {nid 13H}

[2004-05-27 23:09:50] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Not sure how it jives with your current thinking on distributed NIDs. {nid 13I}

[2004-05-27 23:10:09] <[[cdent]]>: conceptually it seems right {nid 13J}

[2004-05-27 23:10:22] <[[cdent]]>: but that's only from a very superficial glace (i've just downloaded a faq) {nid 13K}

[2004-05-27 23:10:33] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: XRI docs are scarce. {nid 13L}

[2004-05-27 23:10:58] <[[cdent]]>: from oasis: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/documents.php?wg_abbrev=xri {nid 13M}

[2004-05-27 23:11:02] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: It's one of the things that needs to happen after we launch the first IdentityCommons prototypes. {nid 13N}

[2004-05-27 23:11:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: the "data web: introduction to xdi" is a good piece. {nid 13O}

[2004-05-27 23:11:52] <[[cdent]]>: do you understand the reasoning behind this: {nid 13P}

[2004-05-27 23:12:07] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: for reference: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/5115/wd-xdi-intro-white-paper-2004-01-20.pdf {nid 13Q}

[2004-05-27 23:12:09] <[[cdent]]>: ? XRIs can assert ?persistence? of parts of the identifier. XRIs allow two types of separators (permanent and reassignable) between segments of an XRI, so the XRI itself can suggest that certain parts of the identifier are intended to be long-lived ?primary keys? (a concept borrowed from database technology) and others are subject to change {nid 13R}

[2004-05-27 23:13:16] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I understand it conceptually, but I'm not sure of the Use Case that motivated it. {nid 13S}

[2004-05-27 23:13:44] <[[cdent]]>: these aren't good identitifiers... {nid 13T}

[2004-05-27 23:14:10] <[[cdent]]>: i suspect that's a losing battle. i think only me, walt, and his two compatriots really "believe" in that notion {nid 13U}

[2004-05-27 23:14:29] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Maybe. {nid 13V}

[2004-05-27 23:14:42] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Identifiers have uses beyond those cited by Walt in his papers. {nid 13W}

[2004-05-27 23:15:28] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: In the specific contexts he cites, I agreed with his precepts. {nid 13X}

[2004-05-27 23:16:08] <[[cdent]]>: those papers are a very slim representation of the religion... {nid 13Y}

[2004-05-27 23:16:09] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I just don't know how it would work in a distributed context. {nid 13Z}

[2004-05-27 23:16:51] <[[cdent]]>: i think it is inevitable that there would need to be some part of the identifier which was an authority source, but even that should just be an id {nid 140}

[2004-05-27 23:17:32] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: XRIs have persistent "e-numbers".  Multiple e-names can map to a single e-number. {nid 141}

[2004-05-27 23:17:47] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: The e-names are for humans; the e-numbers are for the machines. {nid 142}

[2004-05-27 23:18:01] <[[cdent]]>: sounds like dns? {nid 143}

[2004-05-27 23:18:06] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: yes. {nid 144}

[2004-05-27 23:18:41] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: except that the syntax is far more rich, and hence far more expressive. {nid 145}

[2004-05-27 23:19:16] <[[cdent]]>: and that's the problem {nid 146}

[2004-05-27 23:19:32] <[[cdent]]>: if they are expressive they are no longer just a reference {nid 147}

[2004-05-27 23:19:59] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: that's true. {nid 148}

[2004-05-27 23:20:01] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: and by design. {nid 149}

[2004-05-27 23:20:27] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: again, there are good reasons for human-readable identifiers. {nid 14A}

[2004-05-27 23:20:37] <[[cdent]]>: those are labels, not identifiers {nid 14B}

[2004-05-27 23:20:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: okay, I'll buy that. {nid 14C}

[2004-05-27 23:21:04] <[[cdent]]>: and things need labels, i'll buy that {nid 14D}

[2004-05-27 23:21:04] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: But they map to identifiers. {nid 14E}

[2004-05-27 23:21:23] <[[cdent]]>: if you are using labels as identifiers, though, you get instability {nid 14F}

[2004-05-27 23:21:32] <[[cdent]]>: labels should point to identifiers, identifiers should point to resources {nid 14G}

[2004-05-27 23:21:44] <[[cdent]]>: in some situations it is never necesary to know the identifier {nid 14H}

[2004-05-27 23:21:46] <[[cdent]]>: (for the person to know) {nid 14I}

[2004-05-27 23:21:48] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: then when do you use the labels? {nid 14J}

[2004-05-27 23:22:10] <[[cdent]]>: it depends on the context {nid 14K}

[2004-05-27 23:22:38] <[[cdent]]>: in the transclusion use we've got, we haven't come up with yet: because of the limitations in the impelmentation, it only makes sense to use the identifiers because that's all we've got {nid 14L}

[2004-05-27 23:22:57] <[[cdent]]>: but i can imagine a situation where there's some chunk of stuff that becomes canonical in some sense and ought to have a name {nid 14M}

[2004-05-27 23:23:09] <[[cdent]]>: but that name would point to the identifier of that thing {nid 14N}

[2004-05-27 23:23:28] <[[cdent]]>: not to the thing {nid 14O}

[2004-05-27 23:23:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: that's how XRIs work. {nid 14P}

[2004-05-27 23:23:51] <[[cdent]]>: that doesn't seem to be the case based on what I've read just now in the faqw {nid 14Q}

[2004-05-27 23:24:07] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: e-names point to e-numbers.  e-numbers resolve to resources. {nid 14R}

[2004-05-27 23:24:18] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: This is how we're using XRIs for IdentityCommons. {nid 14S}

[2004-05-27 23:24:26] <[[cdent]]>: this faq makes no mention of e-numbers {nid 14T}

[2004-05-27 23:24:40] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: You can blame Gabe. :-) {nid 14U}

[2004-05-27 23:24:43] <[[cdent]]>: this one:http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/5107/wd-xri-faq-01.doc {nid 14V}

[2004-05-27 23:24:53] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: As I said before, XRI docs are scarce. {nid 14W}

[2004-05-27 23:25:44] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: You can have several e-names that point to the same e-number. {nid 14X}

[2004-05-27 23:26:13] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: for example, @blueoxen*eekim, @pw*eekim, @ic*eekim could all map to the same e-number. {nid 14Y}

[2004-05-27 23:26:32] <[[cdent]]>: what value does the @<something> serve? {nid 14Z}

[2004-05-27 23:26:46] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: represents an organization or community {nid 150}

[2004-05-27 23:27:12] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: For the record, the "*" syntax is not sanctioned by the XRI committee. {nid 151}

[2004-05-27 23:27:22] <[[cdent]]>: but if they all resolve to the same thing what do they _mean_ {nid 152}

[2004-05-27 23:27:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: We're proposing it as a change to the spec. {nid 153}

[2004-05-27 23:28:17] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: it means that there's an "eekim" in the "blueoxen" namespace. {nid 154}

[2004-05-27 23:28:17] <[[cdent]]>: (is resolution bi-directional?) {nid 155}

[2004-05-27 23:28:38] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: hmmm... good question. {nid 156}

[2004-05-27 23:29:11] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Fen has expressed some privacy concerns about that. {nid 157}

[2004-05-27 23:29:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: For example, I might not want people to resolve my e-number, only to discover my @sexwithmonkeys e-name. {nid 158}

[2004-05-27 23:29:44] <[[cdent]]>: it would be important that that be true if the e-names were to be used in some kind of transclusion setting (which wouldn't be necessarily necessary, as the e-numbers alone would be sufficient) {nid 159}

[2004-05-27 23:29:56] <[[cdent]]>: yes, that's a nicely valid concern {nid 15A}

[2004-05-27 23:30:20] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: btw, don't tell anyone about my association with the sexwithmonkeys group. {nid 15B}

[2004-05-27 23:30:29] <[[cdent]]>: sorry perplog already got it... {nid 15C}

[2004-05-27 23:30:29] <[[perplog]]>: A program is a spell cast over a computer, turning input into error messages. (Anonymous) {nid 15D}

[2004-05-27 23:30:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Dammit. {nid 15E}

[2004-05-27 23:30:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: we ought to log in the Wiki so I can change it. :-) {nid 15F}

[2004-05-27 23:31:05] <[[cdent]]>: i'm not at all down with that idea... :) {nid 15G}

[2004-05-27 23:31:16] <[[cdent]]>: John has a lot of good ideas wrapped up in a lot of constraints {nid 15H}

[2004-05-27 23:31:22] <[[cdent]]>: i suppose that's true of every one {nid 15I}

[2004-05-27 23:31:36] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: it's interesting to dig a little deeper with John. {nid 15J}

[2004-05-27 23:32:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: His constraints are definitely useful to understand. {nid 15K}

[2004-05-27 23:32:39] <[[cdent]]>: http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2004-01-19-a.html {nid 15L}

[2004-05-27 23:32:49] <[[cdent]]>: http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2004-01-19-a.html {nid 15M}

[2004-05-27 23:32:56] <[[cdent]]>: http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2004-01-19-a.html {nid 15N}

[2004-05-27 23:32:58] [ part ] [[cdent]]@~cdent@cust-216-9-146-10.bton.kiva.net has left #planetwork : {nid 15O}

[2004-05-27 23:34:09] [ join ] [[cdent]]@~cdent@cust-216-9-146-10.bton.kiva.net has joined #planetwork {nid 15P}

[2004-05-27 23:34:31] <[[cdent]]>: sigh {nid 15Q}

[2004-05-27 23:34:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: what happened? {nid 15R}

[2004-05-27 23:34:42] <[[cdent]]>: cut and paste considered harmful {nid 15S}

[2004-05-27 23:34:51] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: *laugh* {nid 15T}

[2004-05-27 23:35:05] <[[cdent]]>: i dragged that url into the client, and after that, everything was marked up as an href {nid 15U}

[2004-05-27 23:35:20] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: what are you using? {nid 15V}

[2004-05-27 23:35:39] <[[cdent]]>: fire on osx {nid 15W}

[2004-05-27 23:35:49] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: better than snak? {nid 15X}

[2004-05-27 23:35:50] <[[cdent]]>: it's not quite soup yet, but i've been using it as it is multi protocol {nid 15Y}

[2004-05-27 23:35:57] <[[cdent]]>: not used snak (yet) {nid 15Z}

[2004-05-27 23:36:01] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: gotcha. {nid 160}

[2004-05-27 23:37:03] <[[cdent]]>: so, anyway, assuming the process of generating e-numbers is relatively straightforward, they seem like fine things {nid 161}

[2004-05-27 23:37:19] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: here's the thing i've been trying to understand. {nid 162}

[2004-05-27 23:37:34] <[[cdent]]>: the first document i read was far more concerned with e-name (didn't even mention the two concepts) and thus sounded too meangingful-laced {nid 163}

[2004-05-27 23:37:44] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: suppose you have NIDs like we have right now. {nid 164}

[2004-05-27 23:37:57] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: if you want to distribute them, you have to make sure those NIDs are unique. {nid 165}

[2004-05-27 23:38:19] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: the obvious way to do that would be to have a central registry for NIDs. {nid 166}

[2004-05-27 23:38:26] <[[cdent]]>: which doesn't scale so well {nid 167}

[2004-05-27 23:38:31] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: exactly. {nid 168}

[2004-05-27 23:38:37] <[[cdent]]>: i was thinking something like the way ethernet numbers are distributed {nid 169}

[2004-05-27 23:38:43] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: so how do you distribute it without adding meaning to the identifiers? {nid 16A}

[2004-05-27 23:38:48] <[[cdent]]>: handles are supposed to work the same way {nid 16B}

[2004-05-27 23:38:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: how are ethernet numbers distributed? {nid 16C}

[2004-05-27 23:39:18] <[[cdent]]>: you say "i want to make ethernet cards" and you go to a central registry {nid 16D}

[2004-05-27 23:39:29] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: and do you get assigned a block of IDs? {nid 16E}

[2004-05-27 23:39:35] <[[cdent]]>: that central registry gives you a block of several thousand or million of them {nid 16F}

[2004-05-27 23:39:44] <[[cdent]]>: when you get near to running out, you get some more {nid 16G}

[2004-05-27 23:40:00] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: so in a sense, there's still meaning to those identifiers. {nid 16H}

[2004-05-27 23:40:16] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: those blocks are reserved for so-and-so. {nid 16I}

[2004-05-27 23:40:17] <[[cdent]]>: in the sense that you can know by deduction which manufacturer, yes {nid 16J}

[2004-05-27 23:40:27] <[[cdent]]>: but that's not information that contained in the id {nid 16K}

[2004-05-27 23:40:35] <[[cdent]]>: it's deduced from {nid 16L}

[2004-05-27 23:40:36] <[[cdent]]>: context {nid 16M}

[2004-05-27 23:40:45] <[[cdent]]>: which is the case with current nids: you can get a sense of time from them {nid 16N}

[2004-05-27 23:41:09] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: how is that better than delegating a single number from a central repository, then allowing people to have infinite numbers within that namespace? {nid 16O}

[2004-05-27 23:41:21] <[[cdent]]>: half the battle of achieving the meaninglessness thing is to not use any of the meaning you might find {nid 16P}

[2004-05-27 23:41:46] <[[cdent]]>: you mean having a two part id? {nid 16Q}

[2004-05-27 23:41:51] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: yup. {nid 16R}

[2004-05-27 23:42:19] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: the block size for both are infinite, as they simply increment. {nid 16S}

[2004-05-27 23:42:30] <[[cdent]]>: well i suppose one argument would be that there's a slightly different method for dealing with the collapse of an authority {nid 16T}

[2004-05-27 23:42:41] <[[cdent]]>: but that's probably not a very good argument {nid 16U}

[2004-05-27 23:42:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: how do you mean? {nid 16V}

[2004-05-27 23:43:01] [[cdent]] pauses for thought {nid 16W}

[2004-05-27 23:44:42] [[cdent]] cues the jeopardy music {nid 16X}

[2004-05-27 23:44:43] [[cdent]]  {nid 16Y}

[2004-05-27 23:44:55] <[[cdent]]>: i knew the answer to this one some other time {nid 16Z}

[2004-05-27 23:45:22] <[[cdent]]>: the path of progress on our transclusion stuff has been far slower than i expected that I've let things fall out of my mind {nid 170}

[2004-05-27 23:45:31] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: s'okay.  i wouldn't be able to say anything intelligent about it right now anyway. {nid 171}

[2004-05-27 23:45:41] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: must... get... caffeine. {nid 172}

[2004-05-27 23:46:01] <[[cdent]]>: certainly to a large extent it is simply religion, but it is fairly clear that it is religion based on a wisdom {nid 173}

[2004-05-27 23:46:03] <[[cdent]]>: in the sort of {nid 174}

[2004-05-27 23:46:18] <[[cdent]]>: well, we've found it's kind of a problem in other envs, so may as well try it this way here {nid 175}

[2004-05-27 23:46:29] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: i'm torn. {nid 176}

[2004-05-27 23:46:46] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: on the one hand, i see the basis for that religion. {nid 177}

[2004-05-27 23:46:55] <[[cdent]]>: however, multi-part primary keys are generally accepted in the db, so... {nid 178}

[2004-05-27 23:47:03] <[[cdent]]>: s/db/db world/ {nid 179}

[2004-05-27 23:47:25] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: after planetwork, i'd like to talk more extensively about this. {nid 17A}

[2004-05-27 23:47:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: i don't think the XRIs completely conform to your religion... {nid 17B}

[2004-05-27 23:47:52] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: but I'm not yet sure that's a bad thing. {nid 17C}

[2004-05-27 23:48:21] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I'm also compelled by the fact that this resolution infrastructure will already exist, and that it's based on a standard. {nid 17D}

[2004-05-27 23:48:27] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: then again... {nid 17E}

[2004-05-27 23:48:29] <[[cdent]]>: i'll see what on monday. i'll ask for his point of view. he and i have never actually managed to talk about this particular problem directly. {nid 17F}

[2004-05-27 23:48:37] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: if we can do better, we should do better. {nid 17G}

[2004-05-27 23:48:45] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: cool. {nid 17H}

[2004-05-27 23:48:59] <[[cdent]]>: i need to look a handles again. i can't remember if they are multi-part of not {nid 17I}

[2004-05-27 23:49:17] <[[cdent]]>: for the record: http://handle.net {nid 17J}

[2004-05-27 23:49:33] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: Yup.  I skimmed through it at one point, need to sit down and actually read it though. {nid 17K}

[2004-05-27 23:50:24] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: btw, since you're around, how do you feel about ; :: for PurpleWiki def lists? {nid 17L}

[2004-05-27 23:53:08] <[[cdent]]>: the only concern i have is that much in the same way we get spurious Intermap links in some text, now we might get the rare perl module marked as the term and def of a dl {nid 17M}

[2004-05-27 23:53:25] <[[cdent]]>: translation also seems potentially difficult {nid 17N}

[2004-05-27 23:53:31] <[[cdent]]>: not within the wiki itself {nid 17O}

[2004-05-27 23:53:37] <[[cdent]]>: but other contexts, blogs mostly {nid 17P}

[2004-05-27 23:53:46] <[[cdent]]>: oh, and I have a huge number of .wiki files now {nid 17Q}

[2004-05-27 23:53:49] <[[cdent]]>: home and kb {nid 17R}

[2004-05-27 23:54:04] <[[cdent]]>: but them's is sort of the breaks of running alpha software i guess {nid 17S}

[2004-05-27 23:54:34] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: you're right about the perl modules {nid 17T}

[2004-05-27 23:54:55] <[[cdent]]>: part of me thinks that since we already have something that works, since you fixed the url thing, that we're mostly okay with what we've got now {nid 17U}

[2004-05-27 23:55:21] <[[cdent]]>: another thought: {nid 17V}

[2004-05-27 23:55:51] <[[cdent]]>: it might be wise to not do any more syntax changes until after we are able to model what we've got, or something close, as a grammar {nid 17W}

[2004-05-27 23:56:18] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: so i was actually using that as a justification for making the change. {nid 17X}

[2004-05-27 23:56:43] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: the URL hack makes the parser complicated {nid 17Y}

[2004-05-27 23:56:51] <[[cdent]]>: yeah... {nid 17Z}

[2004-05-27 23:57:06] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: you could argue that being able to support ;PurpleWiki::Parser:hello is more important than ;10:30am:Meeting... {nid 180}

[2004-05-27 23:57:08] <[[cdent]]>: could write a grammar with the :: style and then put the change in {nid 181}

[2004-05-27 23:57:36] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: but the URL and InterWiki stuff is much more likely to occur in Wiki documents {nid 182}

[2004-05-27 23:57:36] <[[cdent]]>: (since :P comes out as a smiley on my client, that looked really werid) {nid 183}

[2004-05-27 23:58:05] <[[cdent]]>: that is, incoporate syntax changes in a release that includes a new parser {nid 184}

[2004-05-27 23:58:16] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: I think that's reasonable, though -- hold of on syntax changes until we can write a real parser. {nid 185}

[2004-05-27 23:58:29] <[[cdent]]>: i do like the {{{}}} stuff {nid 186}

[2004-05-27 23:58:36] <[[cdent]]>: i've missed that since the start {nid 187}

[2004-05-27 23:58:55] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: MoinMoin has improved significantly since I saw it last. {nid 188}

[2004-05-27 23:59:01] <[[cdent]]>: yes {nid 189}

[2004-05-27 23:59:05] <[[cdent]]>: the earlier version were a mess {nid 18A}

[2004-05-27 23:59:08] <[[cdent]]>: then they modularized it {nid 18B}

[2004-05-27 23:59:12] <[[cdent]]>: then they improved it {nid 18C}

[2004-05-27 23:59:17] <[[cdent]]>: much like we're doing with PurpleWiki {nid 18D}

[2004-05-27 23:59:31] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: i was thinking the same thing.  wonder what the world would be like if we had chosen MoinMoin instead of UseMod. {nid 18E}

[2004-05-27 23:59:46] <[[EugeneEricKim]]>: after all, that was a significant turning point in the history of the world. {nid 18F}